TalkRollerHockey.net

[brendan]

I received earlier this week the latest addition to the new rules and have listed a few I feel are important to players and to the game as a whole.
I as a player want to do the best I can and certainly don’t want to infringe on the rules to give away penalties or direct free hits. I feel it is important to clarify certain points so that as much as possible we as players know what we can and can’t do and that though games and decisions will vary it can limit this occurring
It also provides some people who have only heard about the new rules a little bit of a taste.

I haven’t listed the entire ones just ones I have selected:


ARTICLE 8
(RINK ZONES – DEFINITION OF ANTI-PLAY OR PASSIVE PLAY)
1. The centre line of the rink divides the rink, for each of the teams, in two playing areas:
1.1 DEFENSIVE ZONE
1.2 ATTACKING ZONE
2. When a team gains possession of the ball in its defensive zone, it is allowed 10 (ten) seconds to drive the ball into its attacking zone.
3. After this first attack situation, the team may return with the ball in its defensive zone, but is allowed only 5 (five) seconds to drive the ball back again in its attacking zone.
3.1 The referees ensure the counting of time by means of specific gestures.
3.2 When a team passes the ball from its “attacking zone” to its “defensive zone”, the 5 (five) seconds count starts when the ball crosses the centre line of the rink.

6. PASSIVE PLAY
6.1 Except for the established in paragraph 6.5 of this Article, it is considered that the offensive team incurred in the practice of passive play when – having the possession of the ball and after a reasonable period of time in the game – makes no recognisable attempt of attacking or shooting at the opponent’s goal cage, its only purpose being keeping possession of the ball.
6.2 When a team has possession of the ball, the following situations must be considered to be “passive play”:
6.2.1 When one or more players are clearly in a situation of scoring, but avoid materialising the goal, performing actions that do not aim at attacking the opposite goal cage.
6.2.2 When a team – for a period of over approx. 45 seconds – makes no recognisable attempt to attack or shoot at the opponent’s goal cage.
6.2.3 When a team – 5 (five) times over – intentionally sends the ball into her own “defensive zone”, either passing or carrying the ball, making no attempt whatsoever to attack the opponent’s goal cage.

In the above I have underlined the key points for me; it will be down to the referee to decide whether or not the team is taking part in passive play. However I feel it is important to realise that a team can be trying to attack the other team by breaking down their defence which may take some time. My feeling is that in such a case a team is not incurring passive play and so the 45 second rule does not apply. Also would a team play in a passive way at 0-0 in the first half, I would say not as one of the teams would want to win.
6.2.3 for me is another rule open ended, I would say I believe that the anti play line can be used as a form of attack in some situations, so if a team is attacking clearly but puts the ball into the defensive zone five times during this the 5 times rule surely does not apply. Hence me underlining making no attempt whatsoever.


ARTICLE 16
(PLAYING THE BALL)
1. The ball may only be played with the stick; it may be stopped with a skate or any part of the body, but never with the hand although – as long as the player in question does not find himself inside the penalty area of any of the teams.
2 Touching or moving the ball while lying or resting on the rink with the help of hands, arms or knees, as well as stopping the ball with the hand or kicking it intentionally is a violation of the Rules, subject to the following penalty:
2.1 If the offender was in his/her penalty area, with a penalty shot.
2.2 If the offender was in another area of the rink, with a:
2.2.1 Direct free hit, when the foul cut short a play that might have led to a goal being scored against the offender’s team;
2.2.2 An indirect free hit, in all other situations and provided the “advantage Rule” is not applicable.

Now the above in this one is really important for me’ I believe that this is saying I may as a player stop the ball physically making a gesture to stop the ball with any part of the body or skate but not the hands anywhere outside the penalty area. However once inside the penalty area this is now deemed a foul and so must be penalised with a penalty shot. (This is how it was played in the pre season tournament we played in St Omer) So basically once in the penalty area if a defending player intentionally places his body or skate in front of a shot to stop the ball this is a penalty.
If a player does this in his own penalty area it is an indirect free hit.
Number 2 states the key words lying or resting on the rink so not standing cannot do what follows.

ARTICLE 24
(MINOR FOULS AND TEAM FOULS)

3. TEAM FOULS
3.1 Team fouls comprehend only minor fouls, practiced with play going on – as in paragraph 3.2 of this Article – or fouls practiced while the game is stopped in situations specified in paragraphs 3.3.1 and 3.3.2 of this Article.
3.2 Team fouls practiced with play going on include the following:
3.2.1 Contact fouls without using violence and without major physical consequences, such as grabbing or pushing an opponent, hitting the opponent’s stick or his shin padding intentionally and contrary to the rules of the game.
3.2.3 Illegal blocking or intentional obstruction of an opponent,

3.7 When a team accumulates a total of 10 (ten) team fouls it will be technically sanctioned with a direct free hit. This sanction will also be applied every time this team accumulates additionally 5 (five) team fouls.
3.7.1 For each team, the Official Table must register and count the accumulated number of “team fouls” communicated by the referees to the Table. These fouls are carried over from the first part to the second part of the match, as well as – if it is the case – from regular playing time to extra-time.
3.7.2 As soon as a team accumulates 9 (nine) team fouls in the first part of the match or 4 (four) team fouls in the parts succeeding to the 10th (tenth) team foul, the assistant referee at the Official Table will show a card, in order to inform the referees, the teams and the public of this fact.
3.7.3 As a result, when a player of the team concerned commits another team foul, the referees will not award the advantage rule, but signal immediately the corresponding direct free hit.

In this I have marked about team fouls a team foul is 3.2.1 this is my understanding and what it says if a player is pushing a player with one hand and tackling with the other this is a team foul, if a player plays a ball through the opponents stick and not the ball, stick lift stick tapping etc this is a team foul, if a player holds another’s shirt this is a team foul or holds another players stick or physically pushing with body, legs it is a team foul, and god forbid but if this occurs in the penalty area it is a penalty.
Now I don’t see how this is what some have said to be a lesser yellow card it is without question as stated in the above a team foul and as far as I can see straight forward.

3.9 Except for paragraph 3.4 of this article, the referees must signal to the Official Table – clearly and using the specific signs – all “team fouls” that are effectively signalled, having in mind what is established in the next paragraph.
3.10 When - considering paragraph 3 of Article 20 – the referees decide to allow the advantage rule, not interrupting the game to signal a team foul, the following transitory rule is applied:
3.10.1 The team foul in question may or may not be signalled to the Official Table to be registered to the offending team when the referees decide to allow the advantage rule.
3.10.2 The decision how the referees must act (paragraph 3.10.1 above) belongs to the organiser of the event or competition - CIRH, CERH or National Federation, accordingly.

Now for me the above team foul and advantage rule is some what open ended depending on the referee. My understanding is that in playing the advantage rule and either not giving or giving the team foul as well is entirely up to the referee, or unless stated by the organisers of our competition.
I think this leaves it open especially in the UK, situations of feeling that some have been refereed unjustly, and should be given more clarity on that either you play advantage and give the team foul or that you only give one or the other.
Some guidance on this would be great.

Lastly a little note of change for Keepers on penalties:

3. RESTRICTIONS TO THE GOALKEEPER’S ACTION WHEN DEFENDING A DIRECT FREE HIT AND PENALTY SHOT
When a direct free hit or a penalty shot is awarded against his/her team, the goalkeeper must:
3.1 Stand on both skates, front axles (breaks or wheels) on the goal-line.
3.2 Rest on the floor the hand that secures the stick, which is held horizontally and parallel to the goal line.
3.3 Keep his free hand static; making no contact with goal cage or floor.
3.4 Not move to defend his/her cage before the ball was touched by the player in charge of the direct free hit or of the penalty shot.

Now as we can see the stick hand must be on the floor when taking the penalty not as previous years where glove and stick had to be of the deck. I would say if a keeper has his hand off the ground after one warning this is a foul.

I know it’s long but these rules aren’t easy and I have just chosen a few, the last thing we want is to be doing is going to games and getting penalised for actions we feel aren’t fouls.
So what I ask is for you referees to look at these points and help us as players to get it right, and give us as players a knowing of what to expect.

Brendan

[daz]

Brendan,

The only 'fault' with what you have put that I can see is that the attacking and defensive zones in the UK are actually marked as 22 metres away from the wall behind the attacking end (generally there or thereabouts the old 'anti-play' line). This was an alteration made by NRHA I believe to take account of our 'smaller' rinks.

One question I now have in my mind is thus:-

Say an attacker slapshots the ball (that is obviously going to miss the goalcage), and the ball is then deflected by striking (say the stomach of) another attacking player within the defenders penalty area, and then enters the goalcage (lets not distinguish whether such deflection is intentional at the moment). Is this a goal or not?

[AMB]

The instruction sent to clubs re Rink markings was that we retain the anti-game line but at 20metres. This as you say allows for the small rinks we have to use.
_________________
Aileen

[brendan]

From my understanding as it particularly says any team is yes a foul so no goal if not intentional but as we are ignoring that I say no goal.

[KarlWilson]

You cant really ignore intention for that, as if it was just a random deflection, i would give it. But if he purposefully directed it into the net, i wouldnt.
If however he directed the ball to his stick and then hit it in, still a goal.
_________________
Karl Wilson

[daz]

The only reason I said ignore intention was to stop anyone questioning that rather than giving another question rather than a direct answer.

The situation actually occurred during the Cock 'o the North weekend. As the goalie of the defending team I argued no goal. But I was told I was wrong, deflections from the body are permitted regardless of where.

Seems some people haven't really digested the new rules to me!

[KarlWilson]

If he intentional directed the ball into the net, it is not 'stopping' the ball, which is why I wouldn't give it. But if he had no clue about what was going on, i would - but give the goal to the player taking the shot.
_________________
Karl Wilson

[brendan]

I'm pretty certain most of you referees read this website though not always comment.
Now I believe it would benefit all the players and clubs to view our referees discuss the issue of the new rules on here so we can get a picture of what you guys will be doing, as well as us all knowing what to expect.
In a discussion yesterday evening it was brought up about interpretation etc, I don't really care what each individual ref's interpretation is and this is likely to be the case for the majority. But I believe the head of the referees is Mike Richardson with Derek Bell close behind and the problem being solved would work better if Mike states what his interpretation is on the rules and what he thinks should be done and all referees should then follow this guide and then we may have some sense that one games rules won't be completely different from the next.

From what I hear is that people are happy to get on and work with the changes but to much not understanding and confusion, which is leading to frustration and general displeasure in the game.

If people that matter don't comment what is the point

Below is a link to a game in Italy played with the new rules have a look and see:

http://www.legahockeytv.it/home.php?sport=1

[MIKERICH]

[brendan]

Thanks Mike I guess that would be a no to comment on this hehe, Any ways it would be good if Derek would guide us on this, being Chairman.

Or lets just say we all go on my interpretation? yes ok great

[daz]

The bit that is confusing me is the team foul situation.

Having watched proceedings on Sunday at the NCRHA Tournament at Whitcliffe, there did seem to be very few team fouls being given. During the whole day I don't recall seeing a single direct free hit being given for 'totting up'.

So, either we had some very clean play on Sunday, or alternatively referees were very lenient in their awarding of the fouls.

Now, since the team foul rule could make serious differences to the outcome of games, I do feel that we need to ensure that referees are as consistent as they can be, and in order to do that we need to know what they are going to interpret as a team foul. I have heard differences of opinion from 'nearly a yellow card' to simply hitting shinpads with your stick in the process of a (failed) tackle attempt.

[PhilMcVey]

Daz,

Rumour has it we will be given an all encompassing directive from the Head of referees this week.

Until that happens, as a ref, I will be awarding a team foul for any tackle which results in "Non agressive physical contact", that includes hand on the back, hitting an opponents stick, shin pads etc.

I recommend everyone watches the Italian supercup, especially the 2nd half (link provided by Brendan in earlier post on this thread).

Phil McVey
HBU

[daz]

[KenPughe]

There appears to be a considerable amount of what, in my opinion, is confusion concerning the New Rules, especially the interpretation of Team Fouls.

The CRHR, subsequent to lengthy discussion and agreement with the NRHA, issued Referee’s Directive, issue Nr. 1 (Rev), Dated 3rd October and Referee’s Directive, Issue Nr. 4, dated 7th October which clarified the NRHA’s approach towards and opinion of Team Fouls. These documents, although you should have already been provided with a copy, as they were all sent to your Clubs by the NRHA for dissemination, have either not been provided to you all, or possibly, not yet fully read and digested.

With the CERH ‘New Rules’ of the game of rink hockey, updated version issued in September 2009. Article 24,section 3, Team Fouls, 3.2.1 to 3.2.4 inc. clarified by section 3.10.1 and 3.10.2 and reiterated by the CRHR Directives, noted above, copies attached, should now fully clarify the question of how Team Fouls should be considered by all Referees’

All Referees’, especially Premier League Referees’ must now follow and implement the New Rules updated Sep. '09, clarified by the Referee’s Directives as issued and copied below.

Ken Pughe.
Secretary CRHR

pp CRHR


Issue Nr. 1 ( rev.) 3rd October 2009



Referee’s Directive
Issued by the Committee of Roller Hockey Referees (CRHR)
for observance and implementation by all Referees concerning the
New Rules commencing Season 2009/10


1. There has been much debate on the subject of Team Fouls. We believe that these fouls are ‘set’ between an old Yellow Card foul ( although very near ) and a Minor Foul. Most items within the new rules are relatively clear other than the subject of ‘Contact fouls’. Under Article 24, chapter 3.1.1 Contact fouls are described as being those that are considered ‘intentional’. Since the original issue of the rules in October ’08, the revised new rules, issued in June ’09, have sought to clarify this issue, as well as many others. It is deemed that a contact foul should be ‘intentional’ to be considered as a Team Foul. Therefore hitting the shin padding, a hand ‘on’ the back, without pushing and general, but light physical contact, if made while attempting to win the ball, or effected without intentional and undue force, is acceptable and is not a Team Foul. You must observe this interpretation until further advice is provided.

2. The correct signals for counting the 10 second and subsequent 5 seconds within the defensive area is to be counted with a "horizontal cutting action of one arm" but not to include a vertical raised second arm at the same time (the raised arm in this instance caused confusion with time keepers who believed the Referees were signalling a Team Foul, which they were not)

3. The correct signal for a penalty:- Move directly to the penalty spot and point with one arm outstretched to the spot whilst approaching it (no second arm should be raised)

4. In awarding a direct free hit for the accumulative Team fouls, referees should signal this in the same way as we would have done in previous seasons. On clarification of the 10th or subsequent 5th Team Foul, move straight towards the direct free spot with one arm outstretched, pointing to it.

5. Signalling team fouls: these should not be rushed, the Time Keepers require the time to monitor this and record it. Upon the decision to issue a Team Foul the Referee should raise one arm vertically and then (maybe 1 or even 2 second later with one arm remaining in the air) indicate, by pointing with the other arm, in the direction of the offending teams goal (not in the direction of the advancing team) (whilst it is not always possible, a glance to the time keepers, who should acknowledge this signal, could be made)

6. Missed team fouls: (this will be easier in stop clock games, although can be applied to running clock) If the Referee is unsure as to whether his Team Fouls have been noted then, at the first opportunity, approach the Time Keepers and clarify how many fouls have just been signalled

7. Team Fouls are to be indicated when play is in progress (advantage) but when a team foul is blown for (no advantage gained) then this is also to be signalled and recorded.

N.B. However the above instruction may alter very soon, there are observations in Europe, where they have been rolling out the new rules for some time, that when a Team Foul is blown for ( no advantage gained ) then when the free hit is granted no Team Foul is given. The current new rule is considered as giving a Team or player a double fault, which is seen as being unfair. BUT currently, until informed otherwise, continue as the New Rules.

8. Overseeing a penalty or direct free hit:- As there is now no whistle, the referee should be in eyesight of the taker, (this may mean swapping sides of the rink - partner does likewise, upon request), the second Referee stands by the ‘takers’ penalty box, ensuring that ALL players are stood within it, including sticks and skates, then raising one arm vertically to indicate to the other Referee that all is ready, the penalty or direct free hit ,supervising Referee should then raise his arm vertically to signal the commencement of the five seconds and count these by a horizontal cutting action of his second arm. Neither the G/K nor the other players must move until the ball is struck.

End of Directive Number 1

Issue Nr. 4 7th October 2009



Referee’s Directive
Issued by the Committee of Roller Hockey Referees (CRHR)
Directions and Instructions for all Referee and Time Keepers, for all events
and tournaments, commencing Season 2009/10

Team fouls

The CRHR have been advised by the NRHA to clarify the awarding of Team Fouls especially those for intentional contact with undue force.

The main details in Directive, Issue Nr. 1, remain and are relevant, however the following approach is now to be adopted and implemented for Team Fouls.

For clarification:- Advantage will be signalled, in the normal way, with elbows at the waist with the lower arms out stretched, spread at approx. 60 degrees, with palms facing upward.

When a player commits, what would be considered a Team Foul, on a player with the ball and the player with the ball retains possession, then this can be considered as the player with the ball remaining with the advantage and therefore this is the only sanction to be suffered by the offending player, therefore no Team Foul will be signalled.

When a fouled player fails to retain the ball, play is stopped by the whistle, the advantage of an Indirect Free Hit is awarded to the fouled player, and the team player who made the foul will then be sanctioned with a Team Foul.

NB. As ever advantage is at the Referee’s discretion.

It is believed by the NRHA and the CRHR that the above action will then allow the Referee to exercise more control over the game. Allowing the game to flow, by not distracting the Referee from observing the continuing game carefully, with not having to carry out the various tasks associated with a Team Foul, during play, such as, indicating it, ensuring that the Time Keeper has recorded it, and possibly addressing misunderstandings and so forth. This process only distracts the Referee from his main purpose of observing and overseeing the game.

End of Referees Directive, Issue Number 4.

[daz]

Thanks for that little lot there Ken, I hadn't seen that before.

I will have to digest it all though, and probably discuss it at next training. It is all clear as mud at the minute, but I am sure all will understand in due course.